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CIA Factbook

For future reference the CIA World Factbook 2002 import is at Talk:Antarctica/CIA World Factbook 2002 import. -- Huttite 08:56, 15 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Australian Antarctic Territory

Copied from Talk:Australian Antarctic Territory:

Cjensen suggests redirect to Antarctica, unless someone can define how a part of "Australian Antarctic" that is not within Antarctica.

I disagree. Australian Antarctic Territory is a region of Antarctica and Australia in a similar way the Ross Dependency is for New Zealand. Both countries claim these respective parts of the frozen continent, just as a number of other countries do. If we are going to permit the Ross Dependency have an article then there should be one each for the other Antarctic claims too, as each will be administered by a different country. Constitutionally, an Australian Territory is like a potential State, with its own laws, border controls and administration. So I see this article as a stub, rather than a redirect or a vote for deletion. -- Huttite 01:36, 27 Nov 2005 (EST)

I would very much like to avoid any further debates of the Taiwan / Palestinian Territories variety, and would very much oppose creating regions for Antarctica based on each country's claims (many of which overlap). If someone wants to divide Antarctica up into sensible regions based on tourism (Antarctic Peninsula and Ross Sea might be a good start) and then have territorial articles redirect to those regions it might make more sense, but creating regions based on territorial claims seems a recipe for disaster.

Also, to add a bit more, article 4 of the Antarctic treaty says that all countries with claims in Antarctica will ignore those claims while the Antartic Treaty is in force, so saying territorial claims are like "states" with their own laws and such is not entirely true at present. -- Ryan 02:19, 27 Nov 2005 (EST)

I support removing the Ross Dependency also. Unless the claimant nation enforces actual control over the claimed region, I fail to see how the claim matters to the traveller. In the absence of an effect upon travel, I see no reason to bother with the claims. The state of things does bear mentioning in the Antarctica article because it provides both good education and entertainment. -- Colin 04:09, 27 Nov 2005 (EST)

While I appreciate the claimant nations are not enforcing their claims, as such, nevertheless obtaining permission to visit these various regions of Antarctica generally means at least advising the appropriate administration in the particular country concerned. As making travel arrangements for these various regions of Antarctica are likely to differ, making separate pages for each region seems sensible to me. I admit they are administrative regions. However, until there is a better and more logical breakdown of the continent, these claim regions are going to keep coming back. I think a breakdown by administrative region should remain, if only to prevent these articles being randomly regenerated. -- Huttite 05:16, 28 Nov 2005 (EST)

That actually isn't entirely true -- visiting a base requires permission from the country that owns the base, but visiting (for example) the Antarctic Peninsula does not require informing any claimant nation. I was planning on cleaning up the Antarctica article after I visit again in January, but I'll try to take a stab at re-organizing things in the next couple of days just to try to add some order. The two main regions visited by tourists are the Antarctic Peninsula (claimed by several countries) and the Ross Sea area (also claimed by several countries), so I'd like to start with those regions and make any claimant articles redirect to the appropriate parent region. Let me know if that sounds unreasonable. -- Ryan 12:17, 29 Nov 2005 (EST)

I've redirect Ross Dependency and Australian Antarctic Territory to Ross Sea, which is how the area is more commonly known for tourists. Antarctica now has three regions: South Pole, Ross Sea, and Antarctic Peninsula. That doesn't cover the entire continent, but it does cover the areas where the vast majority of tourists visit. Hopefully I've not ruffled too many feathers by making this change. -- Ryan 23:49, 1 Dec 2005 (EST)

I think it is a easy convenient alternative way of labelling another region that isn't the Ross Sea, the South Pole or the Peninsula. Whether the claim is recognised or not there is a whole chunk of the continent that is, from an Australian perspective, the Australian Antarctic Territory. What do we call that big chunk directly below Australia that isn't the Ross Sea? East Antarctica? For example I've been to Commonwealth Bay and that would be easy to show as in the AA Territory (actually it may even be close to the French territory - I'll check that)- it's definitely not in the Ross Sea. The region also contains the French base Dumont D'urville. The Aussie bases Casey, Davis and Mawson also definitely no where near the Ross Sea, the South Pole or the Peninsula and are spread out across that region (all 6 million square kilometres of it).I think we need some designation whether it is the Australian Antarctic Territory or East Antarctica (is it East Antarctica???) that takes in the region that is essentially the Australian Antarctic Territory (for the want of another label). What do you think? --Shane 05:00, 20 Mar 2006 (EST)

I've pushed back the indent slightly to make the conversation easier to read - hope that's OK. Anyhow, political names are a bit of a problem since they arouse passions and are not usually what travelers use. In addition, looking at a map of claims it appears that the Australian claim is bisected by a French claim, so it's probably not a great region description since it's actually two separate areas. After looking at various tour companies and at the IAATO Tourism Page, it appears that the most commonly used name is East Antarctica, so I like that better. It avoids any political connotations, is fairly straightforward, and covers the entire eastern side of the continent including both Australian and French claims. Would that be acceptable, and we can then have Australian Antarctic Territory redirect to East Antarctica? -- Ryan 13:41, 19 March 2006 (EST)

The last couple of years has seen an increase in tourism to the region so East Antarctica is an appropriate designation for the region I think. So you can count me as in favour of a redirect of Australian Antarctic Territory to East Antarctica. --Shane 11:40, 20 Mar 2006 (AU EST)