From Wikitravel

Hello Sapphire!

Welcome to Wikitravel. Please take a sec to look at our copyleft and policies and guidelines, but feel free to plunge forward and edit some pages. Scanning the Manual of style, especially the article templates, can give you a good idea of how we like articles formatted. If you need help, check out Wikitravel:Help, and if you need some info not on there, post a message in the travellers' pub.

Thank you for contributing to Cincinnati and Munich.

However, I have to ask the question: Is the Cincinnati article better after you edited it than before? I notice you have done a major rewrite of the article but, to me, it seems the poorer for it. Please read our policies, guidelines and templates and the rest of the manual of style before you change too much more; otherwise you might find all your hard work being undone by some (other) merciless editor who follows the guidelines too rigidly. I do like the google local map thingy though - interesting. -- Huttite 21:53, 19 Mar 2005 (EST)

I figured out what happened. The page got deleted on your first edit and you appear to have reconstructed it from scratch. If my comment above seems harsh, please accept my apologies. If you have a problem, or anything that bugs you, please ask a question on the relevant talk page. -- Huttite 19:49, 25 Mar 2005 (EST)

I think that was the night I began working on that and I was using the trial-and-error method. I think the article is somewhat improved - corrections to false info, and additions.

Fortunately the trial-and-error method works well on Wikitravel. If you make a mistake then you, or anyone else, can go back into the page history and work out what was changed and even resurrect the original text. Mind you, if all else fails you can always read the manual or even (re)write it! -- Huttite 05:35, 16 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Contents 1 Cincinnati 1.1 Good work 2 Who needs qualifications? 3 Persuading your computer to do the things you want it to do 4 Books 5 How to link from one section to another 6 Hey Sapphire 7 Reference material 8 Milan image 9 Link 10 Hmm 11 Rail travel 12 IsIn 13 Another Q for anyone 14 Wikitravel:Bug reports 15 external links 16 Tornado map 17 What is a "permanment link?" 18 I thought 19 Pint 20 Re: Milford

Cincinnati

Thanks for all the effort you are putting into Cincinnati. I notice you removed the {{stub}} message. Unfortunately the Cope and Get out sections do not have any content yet, so, technically, the article is still a stub article. As you seem to know a lot about the city, if you can put something into the Cope and Get out sections then that would polish the article off nicely - at least as a small city.

The Cope section is for tips for surviving in town, like the public laundry, hairdressers, and all those myriad of services one cannot do without.

The Get out section is for ideas for travelling on, such as the next destinations in a roadtrip or daytrips, etc.

There are also some other missing template sections, like Buy, Learn and Work, so there is plenty more that it is possible to contribute. -- Huttite 19:44, 25 Mar 2005 (EST)

I added to the Cope section and the Get out section. I also added a "Learn" section. I didn't add a work section, because I wouldn't know where to begin. Most people I know who move to Cincinnati just start working at restaurants and then go from there. The google thing wasn't my idea. I have no idea who added that. - Sapphire

Good work

Cincinnati's looking really good now! Welldone ^_^ -- Lionfish 23:25, 05 Mar 2005 (BST)

Thank you! Sapphire

Who needs qualifications?

I disagree with the claim on your user page that you feel you must be about the only person without a degree or professional qualification to edit articles on Wikitravel. What good is a qualification here anyway? They do not give courses in writing for Wikitravel as far as I know. And, as one professor warned me, a qualification only proves you can pass exams and might also show you can think! You do not need a qualification to edit Wikitravel, just an Internet connection that allows you access to edit. I see many contributions to Wikitravel and some make me wonder if the contributor even had a proper education, let alone a degree. Unfortunately, most of those contributors are anonymous and I never know their names or educational background. However, their raw gems of contributions are lovingly polished (or beaten) into shape by other contributors. What you finally see is the collective work of many people. A few of us are even brave enough to identify ourselves by having a user page. Perhaps having a qualification also gives some people the courage to start a user page. While it appears a lot of people here have a degree or qualification, that fact does not mean you need one to contribute here. You may know things that nobody else thinks important (because it would be here otherwise). Keep up the good work because making good contributions is all you need to contribute successfully to Wikitravel. -- Huttite 05:35, 16 Apr 2005 (EDT)

I would disagree with that too, but, fortunately I don't, because that not what I meant. I just noticed a lot (that has now changed as I've realized the full scale of WikiTravel) users are in computer related fields. I'm currently in the field of gathering money to go on an eagerly anticipated North American train journey. I noticed that you (and I'll quote you, because I like the way you worded it) "For a living, I persuade computers and other electonic systems to explain what humans have been doing with them so I can explain that to other humans." I wish I could persuade this computer to do the things I wanted it to do, unfortunately, some family members believe in the "violence and technology DO mix" fix it method.

Anyhow, I agree with you. Its part of the reason I like WikiTravel. I dislike how some companies and organizations require you to have a degree to obtain a position with them. I.e. Travel companies that sometimes require you to have a journalism degree. Maybe it would help, but there are pleanty of people I think who are well traveled and have an amazing grasp of the English language. For example a guy name Jawad - (his website) www.smilingterrorist.com, hopefully he's worked out the kinks that is friend added to his site.

BTW, is there an easier way to make the "|" character without copying and pasting?

-Thanks, -Sapphire 18:33, 16 Apr 2005 (EDT)

As I quoted above Qualifications prove ... you can think. Employers want someone they know they can trust to do a good job. Many think a qualification demonstrates this without appreciating it only proves the student was only able to pass the exam(s) that they sat on the day they sat them. I do not have a degree in computer science, but one in electrical engineering. Although I can read the circuit diagram of a computer, and probably construct one from its component parts; all my ability in persuading computers to do things has been learned on the job and through reading the manual or help file - out of need and necessity. My current and several previous jobs have required knowledge of Law, Accountancy, Politics, Mathematics and Computer Science as much as Engineering, although I only studied the last two subjects generally in my Engineering degree course, the rest of my knowledge has been gained though experience. A few years ago I was told I did not have the commercial experience for a job as an engineer and now wonder if I should be taking a degree in accounting or law (to support my experience) so I can be an engineer! I suspect that I would then be considered overqualified and still not get the job! In my experience, qualifications are often a way for personnell recruiters to eliminate the apparently (un)qualified from the shortlist for a job interview. Once you get a job, how relevant are the qualifications - really? Fortunately Wikitravel is voluntary and you do not need to an interview to contribute - your qualifications are not relevant - your contributions are.

Concerning the application of violence to technology - yes they DO mix but the person gains only a psychological benefit, though possibly at a physical cost due to the damage caused by the application of (reasonable?) force to the technology. Complaints of the resulting damage (physical and psychological) should really be directed to the engineers who originally designed or developed the technology in the first place as it is obviously not fit for its purpose - unless their intention was for the technology to cause frustration and thereby make it the subject of violence in order to release frustration. Perhaps this is why Bill Gates appears to be one of the most reviled men in the world and you cannot throw a computer a hundred meters with a snow plough (Like HP once claimed for one of their calculators.) and expect it to continue operating.

BTW the "|" character on my keyboard is Shift-"\" and is located between the backspace and enter keys just to the right of the "}" or "]" key.

- Huttite 19:47, 16 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Persuading your computer to do the things you want it to do

Hi Sapphire, just so you know there is a way to get your computer to do what you want it to do. Just download a Knoppix CD image and make a CD. Then put it in your computer and reboot, et voila: the computer will work better than ever before. The CD doesn't install anything, so when you take the CD back out the computer will be just the way your other family members are used to. -- Mark 01:06, 17 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Books

On my Talk page, you asked ... is there an appropriate place in the guide to suggest books pertaining to a destination. Maybe a "Read" section? Thanks. Sapphire 00:37, 19 May 2005 (EDT)

My reply 

Have a look at Wikitravel:Where you can stick it. Newspapers go in the Understand section, so perhaps appropriate books might too. But also look at Wikitravel:External links and Wikitravel:Contributor research links first. If you are suggesting a particular book for a particular location then there should be a good reason to recommend it - otherwise someone will remove it. BUT perhaps the best place is to first propose and discuss including a book on the article Talk page. -- Huttite 06:57, 19 May 2005 (EDT)

I know there was a reason I asked that - a really great book I came across. Ah ha! I remember Glacier National Park. Thanks

How to link from one section to another

You asked: Huttite,

Can you tell me how to make a link that takes a reader to a different part of the same article?

Thanks. Sapphire 22:15, 9 Dec 2005 (EST)

Add [[#Section|refered part]] as the link - this displays as refered part.

For example [[#How to link from one section to another|this section]] - this section.

See Wikitravel:Article_naming_conventions#Non-alphabetic_characters where there is a brief comment. - Huttite 01:17, 11 Dec 2005 (EST)

Hey Sapphire

I'am a newbie i need to know the Bengels will win right? lol Traveler2006 14:30, 28 March 2006 (EST) not joking anyway want to help clean some work? Traveler2006 14:30, 28 March 2006 (EST)

• I need to know the Bengals are going to win myself. Just tell me what you need help with and if I can I will. I'm normally working on Wikipedia, even when I'm not logged in so just leave a message. Later. Sapphire 14:41, 28 March 2006 (EST)

Ok Sapphire sure i need help on pretty much everything I have done.

Traveler2006 14:43, 28 March 2006 (EST) thanks

Reference material

I like this one: Wikitravel:Namespace index. -- Ilkirk 22:08, 29 March 2006 (EST)

Tell you the truth. I knew something like this had to exsist (I didn't know officially until you brought it up.), however, it almost seems impossible to ever find anything that I need to know by using the search engine. I plan on using that reference thing I set up so I can quickly find info that I'm going to need all the time. It will be something condensed that way anything that I find useful in the future can be copied and pasted there. Kind of like a Reader's Digest of WikiTravel policy and programming. Sapphire 23:48, 29 March 2006 (EST)

Milan image

Re. User_talk:Rmx#Milan image: Honestly, no. In this case I just bumped into the article and noticed an image was missing. I have, however, added images to the Philippines, for instance, reponding to the request for images. Ricardo (Rmx) 07:06, 1 April 2006 (EST)

Link

Thanks for fixing the link to 'what is an article' WindHorse 4 April 06

No problem. Just happened to have caught it. Sapphire 23:28, 3 April 2006 (EDT)

Hmm

What is this contraption?

Rail travel

I suppose they could be separate articles, but I think the information for Canada, the US, and Mexico would fit well into just one. Sadly there just isn't that much to tell (especially Mexico), and there's a fair amount of overlap, so it makes sense to me. For example, I live as close to Ontario as to Illinois, so if I were looking into taking a rail trip, seeing both Canadian and US routes listed in the same place would be helpful. - Todd VerBeek 09:16, 7 April 2006 (EDT)

Right, that's was my concern too, but I seperated them because Evan saw it turning into something like that, but there seems to be only one noteworthy rail passenger service in Mexico and very little passenger service in Canada. The US is the bulk of the information. So should I merge them back and then VFD Canada and the US articles? Sapphire 09:24, 7 April 2006 (EDT)

I'd favor merging them back into the NA article, but leave the US/Can articles as redirects to it. I'm going to propose that on Talk:Rail travel in North America. By the way, you mentioned commuter trains before: I think that should be left to the "Get around" sections of local articles. - Todd VerBeek 09:50, 7 April 2006 (EDT)

Alright. FYI: I didn't want to add the commuter information. I thought it was the only possibility we could make the Canadian article revelant by itself. Sapphire 09:54, 7 April 2006 (EDT)

IsIn

I can answer your Brabant question: Brabant isn't yet a page. The software can't tell that Brabant is in Belgium, and Belgium in Europe, etc., if there's no page for Brabant in the first place. Maybe you need to add it? You might also want to check Special:Whatlinkshere/Leuven to make sure that you placed that city correctly. --Evan 12:02, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

Actually, I did that, and changed the isIn to Flemish Brabant, which does in fact exist. --Evan 12:03, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

I realized what I did also. I copied and pasted the name of the region, but I only copied the "Brabant" not the entire "Flemish Brabant." Thanks for the information. I'm going to keep an eye out in case that ever happens again. Although, I have another Q. Let's say that something similar happens with an geographically superior article and that article hasn't been created. If I create that article and do I have add a {{isIn|Whatever country}} before a geographically lesser article like a city recognizes it is in the "superior" article's region? I hope that made sense? Thanks again. 12:09, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

Another Q for anyone

I've been trying to notify User:Shalom Alechem that the images he uploads need to be CC-BY-SA, however, my requests for him to ensure he releases the images under the license seems to go unheard. What should we do? I hope we don't delete them, because a lot of them look great, but wouldn't be able to use them, right? Sapphire 12:15, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

Wikitravel:Bug reports

Hey could you add you link-moving bug to Wikitravel:Bug reports and include what browser/OS you're using? Thanks! Majnoona 15:29, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

Done. Sapphire 15:37, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

external links

Hi Sapphire!

You are reformatting all the external links!? Is there a policy how they should look like? Can't find it... --Flip666 20:43, 9 April 2006 (EDT)

Yeah the policy can be found here Wikitravel:External_links. I forgot the name of section to look under, but the reason we try not to use links like this [[http://www.cnn.com|CNN]] is because when it is written like this the link shows up first and it is harder for some to understand what they are looking at (I believe this is for the users of PDA and printed versions). Instead, we use '''CNN''' [http://www.cnn.com], because it allows users to know the link is for CNN and then it shows the link if they decide to use it. That latter link is generally easier for people to use and more in style with Wikitravel style. Sapphire 20:51, 9 April 2006 (EDT)

Tornado map

I wasn't aware of your comments attached to Image:TornadoAlley.png until now. See Talk:Tornado safety#Tornado Alley map for the discussion that led to me changing the map. - Todd VerBeek 17:18, 13 April 2006 (EDT)

Right, I read already read that discussion, but I seemed liked that you hadn't even noticed my comments and I thought it was funny that both you and I advocated for the same FOAA illustration with a day or two of each other. Sapphire 17:48, 13 April 2006 (EDT)

What is a "permanment link?"

Can anyone tell me what a "permanment link" is? It appears when visiting destination articles in the tool box located directly below the search field. Sapphire 19:10, 13 April 2006 (EDT)

My understanding is that it used to not be possible to link to the current version of an article such that the link would still produce the exact same page even if someone edited it. For example, if I create an external link to http://wikitravel.org/en/Galapagos_Islands, someone looking at that link after it has been edited will see a different version of the page than what I linked to. To allow a way to link to a page as it exists now the "permanent link" feature was added. Thus I can link to http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Galapagos_Islands&oldid=241203 and anyone who clicks on the link will see exactly what I saw when I chose to link there. -- Ryan 19:47, 13 April 2006 (EDT)

The reason I asked that is because I accidentally hit that button about a week ago - I've fogotten which page I hit that for - so will it affect that article that I hit that button on? Or is it something like this? I hit the button and it refreshes the page but instead of something displaying the normal link like this - http://wikitravel.org/en/Galapagos_Islands the article refreshes and displays in the address bar this address - http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Galapagos_Islands&oldid=241203? I would check my theory out but I'm afraid of messing something up. Sapphire 20:21, 13 April 2006 (EDT)

"Accidentally hit that button" and did what? I don't think you can really screw anything up - it links to a permanent link to the current latest version of an article, so if you go to that link and then choose edit you're still editing the latest version of the article. The purpose of having the link is solely so that you have a way of getting a link that will permanently link to a version of an article, so it is useful only in a "someday in the future I want to see this version" kind of way. -- Ryan 20:51, 13 April 2006 (EDT)

And the light comes on... That makes sense to me. I hit the button and just clicked immediately out of the article. I was trying to leave the scene the crime as soon as possible. I just clicked on it on my user page so I understand now. Thanks for the help. Sapphire 20:56, 13 April 2006 (EDT)

I thought

You were quitting for the night!

Also, are you having login problems? I don't see you as logged in. --Evan 02:41, 19 April 2006 (EDT)

I thought and was hoping to be quitting for the night, but that did turn out very well! :) I was watching the Travel Channel and started to do more research on travel topics and national parks. I haven't tried to log in again. I cleared the cookies and it logged my out.

Pint

Hey, your connection to IRC is working. I did see your text, but I didn't get back to the computer until you signed off. :) --Dawnview 16:39, 19 April 2006 (EDT)

BTW, here in Canada beer is still served by the pint, not by the .5l --Dawnview 16:45, 19 April 2006 (EDT)

Thanks. I wasn't sure if I was doing in correctly. I decided at the last moment that I was. Thanks for the info on pints in Canada, but can I ask does Canada use the imperial system, because U.S. pints are a little less than 0.5 liter or the Imperial pint which is more than 0.5 liter?

I would say, because of our history (and because other things like teaspoons are Imperial) that we use Imperial pints. That's just an educated guess though. Of course that would probably mean that we import all our pint glasses from the UK rather the US, which doesn't make any sense. I should do a survey of bars over the next few months and find out. :) --Dawnview 17:11, 19 April 2006 (EDT)

I don't think you have to go that far, but if you want to go ahead and - Plunge forward! When you come to a conclusion let me know. :) Sapphire 17:15, 19 April 2006 (EDT)

It also ocurred to me that maybe we make our own pint glasses. We do after all have enough beer drinkers for that market. On the other hand, maybe the bars switched to US pints, figuring nobody would notice, then they could give us less beer at the same cost. That is after all why the British had a different system for the colonies. Either way it's a pint, not 0.5l. :) --Dawnview 19:50, 19 April 2006 (EDT)

I volunteer to investigate this matter. --Evan 21:55, 19 April 2006 (EDT)

I truely admire your bravery Evan! Sapphire 22:29, 19 April 2006 (EDT)

Re: Milford

No, sorry, I went to St. X. I have a common Vietnamese last name. – Minh Nguyễn 03:56, 26 April 2006 (EDT)